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yes

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miss black miss eve black tell him i'm

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all diked out for him

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that's uh three faces of eve from way

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back in 1957.

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wanna try hypnosis again you mean keep

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punting and wait for a fumble

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but they knew what's up they understood

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shadow work docs you gonna protect them

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against me

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but they didn't understand the

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connection with patanjali

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at least not nearly as much as today's

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guest

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dr leanne whitney that's why i'm saying

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if this moment is

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anything it's also a moment to call us

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towards fearlessness

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and and that's what patanjali you know

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pushes us towards more so than young

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does so the shadow work

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may be something that we do have to

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experience

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on the way towards patanjali's

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transcendent seat of

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we're co-creators and everything so just

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relax everything's perfect the way it is

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there's no way to get to that

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comfortable seat without

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doing all that work welcome to skeptical

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where we explore controversial science

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and spirituality with leading

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researchers thinkers

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and their critics i'm your host alex

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sacaris and today we're joined by dr

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leanne whitney and she's the author of

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consciousness

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in young and patanjali

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very interesting intriguing title and

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she

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sent me an email and i was immediately

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drawn in because these are

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kind of on the fringes of stuff we

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talked about

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and then i looked more into dr whitney's

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work

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super fascinating listen to this

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holistic

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and integrative mental health specialist

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specializing in the intersection of

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western psychology and yoga

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yay so this is going to be a deep dive

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kind of discussion

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it's a deep dive kind of book

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it's rigorous it doesn't shy away but it

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still

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makes this stuff somewhat accessible

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and i'm really looking forward to this

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so leanne thank you so much for joining

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me

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thanks alex nice to be here nice to be

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with you

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so tell us um tell us more about

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about who you are and how you came to do

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you know this particular work in this

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particular way

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oh boy it was a long slow climb um

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or a long descent i guess say it that

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way too

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uh in my 20s actually i was really quite

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ill

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[Music]

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my immune system collapsed and in

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retrospect now i look at it as

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sort of a spiritual crisis um

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so that was a lot to grapple with in my

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20s you know a lot of my friends were

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out you know clubbing and enjoying life

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in in ways that i wasn't able to so it

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took me

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um switching into holistic modalities

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to get my body back on track and and

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feeling better and then

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as i sort of healed from that i was

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began practicing yoga and i was in a

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yoga room

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and i had what's known uh in the

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religious studies literature as a pure

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and then that radically reshifted my

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um way of looking at the world

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um even more so than the illness in my

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20s that pure consciousness

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event happened uh in my early 30s so

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um those two those two things shifted

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my way of being in the world completely

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i was in the film world

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i had done some acting i was making a

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documentary film

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i went to make a documentary about the

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evolution of human consciousness

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and then i sort of took a big pivot and

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went

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into academia back into academia and

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that's where i got my degree in depth

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psychology and now i've been

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uh you know working on the lines of east

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west

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the shamanic tradition you know looking

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at

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um basically a lot of different ways

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that we

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seem to be rooted or not um

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on this planet well you know it's so

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cool because you're kind of balancing a

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lot of different

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things i can already tell in you know

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your sketch

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of the life like you know you're in your

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20s

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you're obviously a very attractive woman

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i'm sure that in in our society i just

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say that because in our society

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that means something and steers someone

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down a course

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which usually doesn't easily intersect

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intersect with either the the spiritual

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awakening

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and or the deep intellectual you know

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i'll just go get a phd

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in depth psychology kind of thing

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and you know you said you're even pulled

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towards the acting thing which again

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kind of plays into that this is what the

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culture is

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feeding back to you about who you are

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and who you need to be

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i am fascinated with how you how you

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kind of navigated that

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yeah let us let's start there because i

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actually took a turn

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towards acting after the illness i had

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acted uh in in grade school and in high

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school

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i did some of the musical theater and

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productions

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um in in my grade school in high school

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uh but it was the illness that actually

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made the turn back to acting because i

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knew that there was a lot of

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emotions that needed to be discharged

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and i felt like creating characters was

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one possible way of doing that so

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actually

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the head towards art towards acting

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towards filmmaking

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was uh me trying to carve my way into

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healing as well okay

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and fair enough i don't want to put you

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on kind of personal stuff i just

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i just think that's kind of an

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interesting i mean like for me

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you know being a guy the thing was more

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money right and success

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and that's where i was totally geared

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now all along i had this idea that

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i had to probe some of these deeper

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questions

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so i had a a high-tech startup and i'm

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doing the mail-order

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mail-in things with um self-realization

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fellowship

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you know i'm in texas and i'm getting it

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so i always had those things but i was

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pulled towards because society culture

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and

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family that hey man you know get the mba

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get a good job and then make the money

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you know

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and it almost sounds like your story had

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a couple of those shifts

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and not even mentioned the you know

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uh kundalini kind of thing that

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some people don't even recover from that

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i mean that just kind of like tells or

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it takes them a long time to reintegrate

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that i mean

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does any of that stuff resonate with you

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oh god it just taken me a very long time

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to

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think you're getting at is the

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cultural influence on our psyche

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and that i i could say

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played a big part in why

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i'm calling it now in my 20s why it was

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a psycho spiritual crisis

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because the cultural pieces were

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weighing so heavily on me at that time

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i came from a family you know where my

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my father was very successful

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um by the time i was at university the

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first time

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uh you know he was making a lot of money

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and what you're saying that

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influence of money materialism

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um sort of egoic how do i make my place

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in the world

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sure those those factors were all

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influencing me

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um and in a way that sent me into a

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crisis eventually

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and that that's what that first crisis

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was in my 20s for sure

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a lot of the cultural pieces collapsing

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you know and i don't want to take it too

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far or in another direction but i do

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think it's

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super relevant in a way and that that's

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that

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sooner or later you have to face

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if you're thinking about things if

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you're waking up at all and thinking

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about these things even intellectually

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not

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spiritually with your opening which we

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can get to

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but you're going to face the crisis

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right you can't be

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looking at just what you described the

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cultural kind of thing

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there's all this money there's all this

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it'll get egoic there's all this

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uh demands on what i'm supposed to do

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how i'm supposed to fit in

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if you're religious at all you know if

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you're christian and then you go to

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college a lot of people face that the

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first person that comes along and says

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that's [\h__\h] don't you know this and

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this and this and it's like

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no i didn't i was raised in a you know

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in a world where everyone kind of told

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me

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all this stuff makes sense you know no

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one told me there was this kind of wink

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and nod yeah well we know it's not

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literally true

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it's you know what i mean so all right

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so i was brought up catholic

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i went to a catholic school uh so there

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was a lot of regimentation there a lot

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of control a lot of control

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in my elementary school life and then

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there was a lot of control

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also in my in my family situation um but

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in particular to go into the catholicism

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boy how do i articulate this succinctly

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my body always knew

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when i look back on it i my body was

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telling me

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i'm hearing these messages about jesus

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and about love

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but the the nuns and the priests the

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what they were emanating it was not that

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so the the the um the conflict

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was being literally viscerally lived in

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my body

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you know and by the time i got to high

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school i told my parents no more

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catholic school like we're gonna have to

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find a way around this

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because this doesn't work for me i just

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you know the tension was building

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even then you know i couldn't again back

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then

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i even in in some way struggled to

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articulate about it now but back then i

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couldn't articulate at all

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but now i see working in holistic and

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integrative medicine

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the body keeps the score as bethel van

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der kolk so beautifully said

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on the title of his book the body is

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keeping the score

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there's no way to run from consciousness

285
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:46,079
there's just you can't run away from it

286
00:10:49,829 --> 00:10:48,640
that's beautiful leanne that's a great

287
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:49,839
great beautifully

288
00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:53,519
put insight link that up for us

289
00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:56,560
with your yoga practice

290
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:59,519
because we share this in common a long

291
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:00,000
time

292
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:03,360
yoga practitioner i am and it took me

293
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:05,040
years and years and years to realize

294
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:06,320
it's not

295
00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:10,959
the least bit about the poses and that

296
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:14,240
it's deeper on so many levels and yet at

297
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:16,000
the same time like you're just alluding

298
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:16,640
to

299
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:20,480
hell yes it's about the poses you know

300
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:23,600
so because the body that that's such a

301
00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:25,760
beautiful insight and i think there's

302
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:26,880
some truth

303
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:29,760
there that yoga is trying to get at even

304
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:30,560
though it's

305
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:33,440
it it has its same co-opting corruption

306
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:35,120
kind of elements

307
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:38,640
as as everybody else does too which we

308
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:40,079
can talk about but

309
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:43,200
thoughts on that uh sure within sort of

310
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:45,200
the guru traditions there there can be

311
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:47,200
corruption that happens there

312
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:50,399
um yeah the way i like to frame it is

313
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:52,320
the body is a metaphor

314
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:55,120
so where the the poses i'm sorry the

315
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:57,839
poses the asana poses are a metaphor

316
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:01,440
so we're looking you know for balance

317
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:04,639
right left in out up down

318
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:06,720
we're looking to find as the buddha

319
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:08,880
succinctly said the middle way

320
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:12,480
so psychologically you know physically

321
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:15,120
and so when we get on our mat and do the

322
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,079
asana

323
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:18,320
that's what we're doing is we're living

324
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:19,839
out sort of the metaphor of what we're

325
00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:20,560
attempting

326
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:24,079
also psychologically to get our minds

327
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:28,240
balanced and therefore in alignment

328
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:31,279
with what perhaps we could say pure

329
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:32,399
consciousness

330
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:33,760
and we could go deeper in this

331
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:35,360
conversation also about the archetypal

332
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:36,160
levels

333
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:39,120
but that's that's the way i frame the

334
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:40,000
asana

335
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:41,920
and the pranayama component the

336
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,200
breathing component

337
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:46,160
is just so critically important because

338
00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:47,040
the breath

339
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,240
helps us understand where the fear

340
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,880
is located where the binds are where the

341
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:54,240
blocks are

342
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:56,800
and if there is you know if this moment

343
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:58,560
in time is about the realization that

344
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,639
the body keeps the score i would say

345
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:02,480
this moment in time is also about the

346
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,959
realization that it's imperative that we

347
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:06,160
begin to eradicate

348
00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:09,680
fear that's awesome and uh

349
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,320
you kind of uh laid it out only slightly

350
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:14,079
differently but actually then i would

351
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:15,600
although you kind of came back around to

352
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:17,200
exactly where where

353
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,200
my kind of accumulated intuitive

354
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:23,279
limited intuitive very very limited

355
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:25,680
intuitive feel of it is that

356
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:29,200
it is about releasing

357
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,079
it's about breathing and releasing and

358
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:34,720
that the poses the asanas the physical

359
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,920
positions can help release the blockages

360
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:39,839
but that's what it's really all about

361
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:43,120
because my experience is that anyone who

362
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:43,519
does

363
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:46,880
five minutes of meditation realizes

364
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:50,399
that the [\h__\h] that's coming up is

365
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:54,079
you know of their creation and that the

366
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:56,560
only way to get rid of it

367
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:58,959
is to release it to allow it to be and

368
00:14:02,150 --> 00:14:00,079
to allow it to

369
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:02,160
release itself because you've kind of

370
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:03,760
created the mess and

371
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:06,560
you've got to kind of clean it up and i

372
00:14:10,420 --> 00:14:08,560
i think i love your idea of the

373
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:10,430
of the metaphor um

374
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:11,680
[Music]

375
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:14,480
but it's almost like the first part of

376
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:16,160
what you said is kind of true too

377
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:19,040
the body is a metaphor the poses are a

378
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:21,440
metaphor but the body is also a metaphor

379
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:22,480
for

380
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:25,680
what we're experiencing you know at this

381
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,760
time so god there's so many different

382
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:29,360
ways we could go there

383
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:32,399
but i love this conversation because

384
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:36,079
in my experience yoga is so

385
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,480
misunderstood and so uh taught so poorly

386
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:42,639
i would say capitalism will devour

387
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:44,000
anything in its path i mean

388
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,240
it's like a giant pac-man i mean it just

389
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,839
it has an insatiable

390
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:49,680
predatory capitalism it seems to have an

391
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:51,680
insatiable appetite so

392
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:54,320
um it certainly has gobbled up yoga at

393
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:54,720
least

394
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:58,000
in america you know euro american

395
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:00,160
culture i probably can say

396
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:04,949
and let me enter let me interject

397
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:06,160
something there because i don't know

398
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,760
that i don't know that we're on the same

399
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,680
page there necessarily and

400
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:11,040
staying out of that because i don't

401
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:12,880
think capitalism comes into it

402
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:14,720
you know i had a really interesting

403
00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:15,920
dialogue

404
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:18,320
a year ago when i was writing this book

405
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,120
with uh

406
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,440
a woman named annika lucas and i don't

407
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:23,680
know if you've ever heard of her

408
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,720
but she started something in new york

409
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:28,880
upstate new york called uh

410
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:33,040
prison liberation yoga she does yoga for

411
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,480
uh inmates that primarily women

412
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:38,800
who are incarcerated and is dealing with

413
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:40,800
all that kind of stuff

414
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:43,360
but the reason i contacted to her is she

415
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,120
was a victim of uh

416
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,360
that satanic ritual abuse cult in

417
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,199
belgium back in the 80s

418
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:50,959
and it was just a horrible experience

419
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:53,120
from time she was six years old

420
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,480
but where the story really gets

421
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,079
interesting so we're talking about all

422
00:16:02,230 --> 00:15:58,000
that and she goes yeah

423
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:02,240
and then i met patabhi joyce

424
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:05,279
and he sexually assaulted me and then

425
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:06,639
you go on and you look for

426
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:08,959
patabhi joyce there's hundreds of women

427
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:09,920
that have come forward

428
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:12,399
and said yeah you did that then you look

429
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:13,600
at iengar

430
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:16,959
so i started with ayengar in dallas

431
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:19,839
and you know he was the the slap guy you

432
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:21,360
know come around he's just rude and

433
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,360
obnoxious and would slap people but

434
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:25,360
everyone had to go oh you know that's

435
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:26,800
part of his you know

436
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,720
thing or you don't know what he's been

437
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,480
through with his brown skin and all the

438
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:31,839
rest and it's like

439
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:34,320
i don't know but if that's the fruits of

440
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:35,519
his work

441
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:37,360
it doesn't seem right and then there's

442
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:40,560
the same kind of sexual misconduct

443
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:43,600
going on there so that you got to take

444
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:46,160
capitalism out of the out of the thing

445
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:47,839
there and it starts looking

446
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:50,000
like all these other cults it looks like

447
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:50,959
every other cult

448
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:53,279
we've run into and when power is

449
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:54,560
concentrated

450
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:57,759
and you know particularly with in this

451
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:58,560
case

452
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:00,560
men who are great who are raised in one

453
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:01,920
culture india

454
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:04,160
who are kind of thrust into this other

455
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:05,360
culture and they can't

456
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:08,400
deal with some of the stuff that comes

457
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:09,919
with that culture

458
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,959
it's very human it ain't very

459
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:15,520
complicated on a deep psychology level

460
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:16,400
it's just

461
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,240
they're working out their [\h__\h] and they

462
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:20,559
haven't done it and in that respect

463
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:23,760
that doesn't have anything to do with uh

464
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:26,240
capitalism but i think that is the root

465
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:27,280
cause

466
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:30,240
of the problem with yoga the problem

467
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:32,080
with yoga is it needs a

468
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:35,840
serious disintermediation it needs

469
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,919
you don't need me to show you the

470
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:39,200
[\h__\h] poses

471
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:42,559
you can just that's that's not the hard

472
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,200
part

473
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,360
what you need me to do is help create an

474
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:47,120
experience

475
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:49,840
through which you can understand who you

476
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:50,640
are

477
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,480
by a combination of these very simple

478
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:54,640
poses and breathing which aren't magical

479
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:54,960
but

480
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,480
we just kind of do them and they kind of

481
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:58,320
help

482
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:01,360
yeah i i'm so with you with the guru

483
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:03,280
culture where we we're actually talking

484
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,760
about

485
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:05,200
uh two different things where i was

486
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:06,799
going with capitalism

487
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:09,919
was this idea of you know buying 150

488
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,960
yoga pants and having a pert butt and

489
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:14,480
there's a lot of money there's six

490
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,720
billion dollars i think at last count

491
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:18,320
or something like that there's a lot of

492
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:20,080
money in the yoga industry

493
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:22,960
so that the money that gets exchanged

494
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:24,559
between all the products

495
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:26,880
and i don't know about the studios but

496
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,000
again there's money out there

497
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:30,320
to be had and i think that's part of the

498
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:31,520
the corruption

499
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:35,280
but also for sure the guru culture

500
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:38,400
is part of the corruption as well and if

501
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:40,080
we could go into that just a little bit

502
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:41,520
further because i think it ties it does

503
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:42,000
tie in

504
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,000
we'll eventually get to your awesome

505
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:46,559
book and all the rest of that stuff

506
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:49,840
it's not just the guru culture because i

507
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:51,760
think the guru culture

508
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:55,200
is a reflection of the

509
00:19:01,430 --> 00:18:58,480
cultish way that we've approached

510
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:01,440
spirituality through religion so what

511
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,720
they're doing is they're just

512
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,559
replicating the hierarchy right so you

513
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:05,919
go to the catholic church and the

514
00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:08,080
catholic church says

515
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,120
god is awesome and all powerful

516
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:13,760
and we will be your intermediary your

517
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:15,280
soul intermediary

518
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:18,240
to experiencing that divine

519
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:19,520
consciousness

520
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:21,520
and then the yogis are doing the same

521
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:23,360
thing whether they realize it or not

522
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:24,160
they're saying

523
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:26,400
we will intermediate that for you

524
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:27,679
there's no way you could

525
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,240
directly access that well of course you

526
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:31,919
could if you can't directly access it

527
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:33,200
then it isn't real

528
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:35,200
and i think yoga runs the risk of making

529
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,200
that same mistake has made that same

530
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:39,840
yoga in the west is built on those same

531
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:41,600
principles and they need to be

532
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:46,470
to the extent that it is yes i wouldn't

533
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:48,799
make such a big statement but it's there

534
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:51,200
it's definitely there there's no doubt

535
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:52,160
about it

536
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:55,039
is it everywhere i'm not sure about that

537
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:55,600
but

538
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:58,480
it's definitely there yeah and i agree

539
00:20:02,470 --> 00:19:59,360
with you

540
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:02,480
ultimately yoga like young is pointing

541
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:02,720
us

542
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:05,679
towards direct experience i mean that's

543
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:06,559
what

544
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:09,679
is

545
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:12,640
not mediated by another person that

546
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,600
you're

547
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:16,000
working to clear the distortions from

548
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,960
your lens

549
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:18,559
which goes back to what you were talking

550
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:20,159
about you know

551
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:22,159
on the mat that's what we're doing here

552
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:23,840
if consciousness is all there is

553
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:26,159
this is a big letting go this is a big

554
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,760
clearing of blocks this isn't about

555
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:29,280
gaining anything this is about letting

556
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:30,080
go

557
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:32,240
of a lot of things which have to do with

558
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,080
you know distorted thought patterns

559
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:37,200
and uh yeah confused tendencies in the

560
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:38,400
mind

561
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,760
and then pure consciousness is right

562
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:41,600
there to show itself

563
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:44,960
it was either hidden inside you know

564
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:46,720
you know there wasn't good bagel tone or

565
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:48,159
it was you know hidden down

566
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:51,039
in the nervous system somewhere and we

567
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:52,480
were clenched in

568
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:54,480
fight flight or fear for long periods of

569
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,400
time and then those

570
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:58,480
nerve endings those nadis those channels

571
00:21:02,070 --> 00:20:59,919
begin to open

572
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:02,080
and then that material becomes more

573
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:03,600
available to us to process

574
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:07,039
and integrate and um you know stand

575
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:09,679
stronger in the body because of

576
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:13,120
so how does this relate to young

577
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:15,760
and patanjali what sent you down that

578
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:18,080
path what needed to be

579
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:21,200
explored and exposed in that kind of

580
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:27,270
so i was in a yoga room when i had that

581
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:29,280
pure consciousness event

582
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:32,640
um and again i you know i i

583
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:35,280
i've said this in other interviews i

584
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:36,960
didn't ask for it

585
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,960
didn't even know at that point i hadn't

586
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,400
even studied the philosophy

587
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:42,159
i had been turned on to yoga because i

588
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:43,520
was sick in my 20s

589
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:45,760
i was looking to feel better and to heal

590
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,799
but i hadn't

591
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:48,960
in any way explored the philosophy or

592
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:50,480
the psychology

593
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:53,760
um but i had that

594
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:57,840
event and then i started to look deeper

595
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,960
into

596
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:00,960
the first text actually i went to was

597
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:02,640
the tibetan book of the dead

598
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:04,799
thankfully and that was a big relief to

599
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,039
read that text and realize that the

600
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:09,840
pure awareness that i had been you know

601
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:10,559
if you could

602
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,799
if i could loosely say awakened into

603
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:14,559
that that was already existing and being

604
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:15,520
talked about

605
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:18,480
and then um then i began to study

606
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:19,760
potentially

607
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:22,880
somebody introduced me to young

608
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:25,919
and you know for the next eight years

609
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:28,240
prior to going to the academy i studied

610
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:33,270
study young psychology like i just

611
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:35,840
studied them both consecutively

612
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:39,440
so tell us tell us tell us what what do

613
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,080
you find

614
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:42,960
in that you know kind of interesting

615
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:44,159
interplay you just did it with your

616
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:45,280
hands

617
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:49,600
tell us you know there's a lot of places

618
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:50,880
where they meet

619
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:52,559
they have a lot of similarities right

620
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:54,400
they're both interested in the healing

621
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:55,840
of human suffering

622
00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:58,559
they're both interested in the religious

623
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:00,880
function of the psyche we could say

624
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:03,200
uh affect as an empirical means of

625
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:04,880
entering the psyche

626
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,320
um but ultimately after studying them

627
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,080
for a long period of time and it really

628
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:12,080
ended up being looking like uh you know

629
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:14,000
a needle in a haystack

630
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,230
used capital s self this term the self

631
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:26,640
the archetype of the self and he was

632
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:28,080
pulling from the

633
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:30,240
uh eastern traditions from the wisdom

634
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:31,760
traditions from yoga

635
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:34,799
because he himself growing up in

636
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,360
uh protestantism he didn't want to use

637
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:39,760
the term god so he borrowed this term

638
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,120
but when you when you really look at

639
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:45,279
it young self has both conscious and

640
00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:46,960
unconscious components

641
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:49,760
he's mostly talking about the contents

642
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:50,880
of consciousness

643
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:53,120
and what patanjali is ultimately

644
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:54,240
pointing to

645
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:56,320
is this antic reality of pure

646
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:58,000
consciousness that the reality of our

647
00:24:03,350 --> 00:23:59,679
being is pure consciousness

648
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,360
so it can never go unconscious

649
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:05,360
young's making a representation in other

650
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:06,720
words

651
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:10,559
yes yes i i'm interested in this

652
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:14,159
middle ground because

653
00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:16,720
if you think about this very deeply and

654
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:17,440
again

655
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:20,240
you have you're an extremely deep

656
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:21,360
thinker and it's so

657
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:24,640
awesome to encounter somebody who

658
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,640
is relatable and can speak on so many

659
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:28,960
different levels but this book

660
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:31,120
i mean i don't want to like steer people

661
00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:32,640
away from it

662
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:36,159
but look inside amazon and make sure

663
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:36,480
you're

664
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,000
up for it because it's not like just a

665
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:40,640
kind of quick crazy read you know

666
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:43,039
which everything shouldn't be a quick

667
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:45,200
breezy read you know

668
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:49,600
but the bottom line for me

669
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:53,440
is the middle ground the middle

670
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:57,279
territory you know and

671
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:00,640
young stops there in my in

672
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,440
my read of it is young is all about that

673
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:05,279
young is all about okay

674
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,880
where are we where are we with the

675
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:09,039
shadow where are we with the angels and

676
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:11,679
demons i mean young is about you know

677
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:14,080
hypothesized spirit entities that are

678
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:16,559
interacting with us you know whatever

679
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:19,520
and patanjali is kind of the traditional

680
00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:20,960
yogi like

681
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:23,360
why would you want to stop there just go

682
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:24,080
past that

683
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,320
keep asking what's next what's

684
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:28,000
fundamental what's at the base

685
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,120
of all this and

686
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:33,520
one i guess i want to know if that's

687
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:34,960
your read of it

688
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:42,310
well i would say what patanjali does

689
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:44,480
what potentially his view does and

690
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:46,480
potentially can do

691
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,480
is it therefore it changes the

692
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:52,799
perception the field of perception the

693
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:54,640
paradigm

694
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:57,600
reality ends up looking quite

695
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:58,559
holographic

696
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:01,120
which as i say in my book right we know

697
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,799
kyle pribrum was pointing towards that

698
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:04,240
we know david bowman was pointing

699
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,200
towards that

700
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:07,520
um mel sedona i think his name is

701
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,120
there's definitely quantum physicists

702
00:26:14,789 --> 00:26:11,120
currently who are pointing towards that

703
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:14,799
um and no uh

704
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:16,799
you know young points towards

705
00:26:22,149 --> 00:26:18,880
synchronicity

706
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:22,159
there's he doesn't comprehensively

707
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:26,320
put all his uh phenomenology

708
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:27,679
together all his theory and

709
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,000
phenomenology together to him you know

710
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,320
the psyche used this ongoing dynamic in

711
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:34,400
in you know rightly so

712
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,200
but what patanjali's outlook does

713
00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:41,600
it allows us to take a comfortable seat

714
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,480
more so

715
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:44,240
in the body i don't think we can ever

716
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:45,679
take a comfortable seat

717
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:48,799
in young's middle path because

718
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:51,120
suffering always remains and you know

719
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,240
potentially

720
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:54,960
continuing to see through all that

721
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:55,919
phenomena

722
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:57,600
not get caught in it and that's why i'm

723
00:27:02,470 --> 00:26:59,760
saying if this moment is anything

724
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:02,480
it's also a moment to call us towards

725
00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:03,760
fearlessness

726
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,520
and and that's what patanjali you know

727
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:09,760
pushes us towards more so than young

728
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:10,559
does yeah

729
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,520
young helps for sure shadow work is

730
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:15,360
beautiful and amazing and right in

731
00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:16,320
alignment

732
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:18,799
with the self-inquiry of patanjali yoga

733
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,760
no doubt about it

734
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:23,600
you know awesome i mean there's like we

735
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,919
could spend an hour talking about all

736
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:26,880
that

737
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:29,279
but i'm just going to ask you to to keep

738
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:30,720
going

739
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,799
with this because i i don't know if uh

740
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,279
if everyone's understanding i don't know

741
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:39,039
if i'm understanding i think i'm

742
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:40,320
understanding i think we're on the same

743
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:41,360
page here

744
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:45,760
but so the shadow work may be something

745
00:27:50,110 --> 00:27:48,880
that we do have to experience on the way

746
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:50,120
towards

747
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:53,600
patanjali's transcendent seat

748
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:56,320
of we're co-creators and everything so

749
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,279
just

750
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,440
relax everything's perfect the way it is

751
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,360
we may have to go through

752
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,080
it's not perfect because the shadow it's

753
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,000
not perfect because

754
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:09,360
what entities are interacting with me

755
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,279
you know so how do you see people

756
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:16,320
who come to you for help how are they

757
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:17,279
dealing with

758
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:22,080
that path towards patanjali's seat

759
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:26,000
of awareness well if i can just say look

760
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,159
in chapters one and chapter two i think

761
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:30,240
potentially makes it clear we absolutely

762
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:31,840
have to deal with this material

763
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:33,039
there's no way to get to that

764
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:34,960
comfortable seat without

765
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,240
doing all that work both uh

766
00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:40,480
the growth phenomena on the front of our

767
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:42,559
eyes but also the more subtle

768
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:46,080
phenomena all feelings all

769
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:48,399
subtle thought forms on the interior of

770
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:49,200
our eyes

771
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,520
that this all has to be looked at it

772
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:53,440
potentially is very clear on that i

773
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:53,840
think

774
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:56,000
right right but hold on because there's

775
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:57,360
a bunch of people

776
00:29:02,470 --> 00:28:59,600
in the non-dual community or whatever

777
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:02,480
you want to call it

778
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:05,039
readers and uh you know thinkers about

779
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:06,159
patanjali

780
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:07,679
who kind of spin it a different way

781
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:09,440
which has merit which is

782
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:11,360
as soon as you realize that as soon as

783
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:13,200
you read chapters one and two it is kind

784
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:13,760
of over

785
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,360
right because i have to work through

786
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:17,200
that okay

787
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,240
that's done i did you know my all's i

788
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:22,559
need to do is wake up to the reality

789
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:23,200
that

790
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:26,880
really is no work

791
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:29,440
to do right i mean there is that

792
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,760
interpretation of it that is

793
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:33,760
you know i'm not saying it's it's a lot

794
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:36,080
of people wake up to you know there's no

795
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:38,000
me here there's no

796
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:40,880
anything you know and i'm not saying i'm

797
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:42,240
in that camp but i

798
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:45,679
i do see a certain uh inescapable

799
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:48,000
you know reality to that too you know

800
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:48,720
it's like

801
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:55,029
i think i hear what you're saying it's

802
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:56,240
so interesting right

803
00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:58,640
like talking to you know because again

804
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,000
everybody's interpretation

805
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,320
of young and patanjali are different i

806
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:04,399
really set myself up for a challenge

807
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:06,399
picking these two scholars because it's

808
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:07,520
like a hornet's nest

809
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,080
no matter what way you turn you know if

810
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:11,840
you look at like all the jungian

811
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:12,960
societies

812
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:15,200
you know in england and chicago they all

813
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:16,320
end up breaking apart

814
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:18,080
because even the youngins can't agree on

815
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,520
what young's saying right and then

816
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:21,600
everybody reads potentially differently

817
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,600
so but you know both these scholars

818
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:24,720
maybe we could say are

819
00:30:28,389 --> 00:30:26,880
so broad in a way so everybody puts

820
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:28,399
their read into it

821
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:31,520
if i were to present to you and say

822
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:34,080
leanne you're not talking to alex you're

823
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:35,679
talking to

824
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:38,880
what is being presented as

825
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:42,320
alex now to you but the real me

826
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:46,320
is uh you know that i realize

827
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:50,000
is beyond that and is always with me

828
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:52,720
and i can play this game here uh this

829
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:54,640
egoic game of alex but

830
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:57,039
i am so aware that that's not who i am i

831
00:31:02,070 --> 00:30:58,960
i kind of move in and out of even being

832
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:05,110
well i would say actually i always

833
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:07,279
talk to people i talk to the buddha

834
00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:08,799
within people

835
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:11,440
i mean when i sweep my the pathway up to

836
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:13,120
my house every day i'm sweeping it for

837
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:14,399
the buddha to walk in

838
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,360
i'm always talking to that aspect of

839
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:18,960
people because

840
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:22,320
that's just kind of where i'm at that

841
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:25,440
that that buddha seed is in all of us

842
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,559
and i it to me it's still my hair just

843
00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:30,080
stood on end actually it's still within

844
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:32,240
the realm of possibility

845
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:35,600
that we can wake up to that but we need

846
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:37,760
the right environment and i think that's

847
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:38,480
part of

848
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:39,919
you know what we're talking about now

849
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:41,919
with like the fearlessness or

850
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:44,240
you know a paradigm shift we need the

851
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,200
right environment

852
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:47,600
in order for you know as many people as

853
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:48,559
possible

854
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:52,000
to stabilize enough move past enough

855
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:52,960
fear where that

856
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:57,440
realization can really take hold

857
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:59,120
because again it's already in all of us

858
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:00,880
it's not it's not something that's

859
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:04,399
it has right it's there already

860
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:07,919
okay so tell us this leanne for people

861
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:08,720
who are

862
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:11,679
intrigued with the way you're

863
00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:13,519
approaching this

864
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:16,960
how can you and how do you kind of help

865
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:17,679
people

866
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:25,430
what we talked about earlier when we

867
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,640
were saying about

868
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:28,880
the body keeps the score i definitely

869
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:30,080
look at

870
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:33,360
you know what is the what is manifesting

871
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:34,640
within the body

872
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:38,240
and then where is the mind bound in

873
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:40,159
particular thought patterns that

874
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,679
aren't allowing the energy to freely

875
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,559
move throughout the channels in the body

876
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,159
so i kind of take a

877
00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:51,120
two-pronged approach look back to see

878
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:53,600
where things might have gotten bound

879
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:55,279
sometimes you can find them sometimes

880
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:56,640
you can't you know they're either in

881
00:33:01,830 --> 00:32:57,600
cultural pieces

882
00:33:06,149 --> 00:33:01,840
family pieces you know work pieces

883
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:06,159
but then also very teleological i.e

884
00:33:09,909 --> 00:33:07,840
where does the psyche want to go

885
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:09,919
where does that energy feel like it

886
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:11,600
wants to move

887
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:14,480
you know creatively does it does it want

888
00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:14,960
to

889
00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:19,519
eradicated do you want peace

890
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:20,799
you know i always ask people what are

891
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:23,760
their values what are they looking for

892
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:26,480
what do they need and then we try to get

893
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:28,399
where that energy is bound and

894
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,320
so it becomes available so they can move

895
00:33:34,389 --> 00:33:32,880
it along different lines

896
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:34,399
but again the no i always say the

897
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:36,159
knowledge is in you i

898
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:37,919
always tell my clients the knowledge is

899
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:39,440
in you right i'm

900
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:42,399
i'm here and we're having a a safe

901
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:44,480
container but that knowledge will bubble

902
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:45,120
up from

903
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:54,950
so where do you see clinical psychology

904
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:59,360
heading in terms of its ability to

905
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:00,880
do this kind of integration that you're

906
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:03,600
trying to do with

907
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:06,399
really extended consciousness and this

908
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:07,279
gets tricky

909
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:10,399
because you know the jungian extended

910
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:11,599
consciousness

911
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:14,000
includes the angel demon thing i mean i

912
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:16,240
just talked to a guy dr bernardo

913
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:17,599
castro i don't know if you know him but

914
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:20,560
he's a phd philosopher and computer

915
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:22,560
scientist and just wrote a book on young

916
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:24,800
we were talking about the metaphysics of

917
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:25,839
young and if you

918
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,839
you know it's like he's right there he's

919
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:28,960
saying he has that

920
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:30,399
religious background but he's saying

921
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,560
yeah angels and demons they're

922
00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:34,800
there you got to deal with them so

923
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:37,119
that's one aspect of this extended

924
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:38,240
consciousness realm

925
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:41,440
that in some ways you know

926
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:44,240
psychology has zero chance in terms of

927
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:46,079
academic psychology zero chance there

928
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:47,040
just can't

929
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:50,240
clinical psychology there's an opening

930
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,000
there because they're more

931
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:54,639
kind of artistic kind of freewheeling

932
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:56,240
and kind of stuff

933
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:59,280
but then when you get over to patanjali

934
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,880
and that kind of where you're heading in

935
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:02,480
that well let's just move past

936
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:06,000
all that then

937
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:09,119
where what are the opportunities

938
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:12,079
and challenges for psychology with all

939
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:16,079
this extended consciousness stuff

940
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,160
now the frame that i use on that these

941
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,160
are all contents of consciousness

942
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:21,599
that's the way that i would frame it not

943
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:23,599
necessarily extended consciousness maybe

944
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:26,000
deeper realms of the cosmos

945
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,520
but it's all the contents right i for me

946
00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:31,520
i like to keep pure consciousness in its

947
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:33,920
own category if you will the fear

948
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:36,000
established in its own nature so it's

949
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:37,680
seeing and what is it seeing well it's

950
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:38,880
seeing phenomena

951
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:41,359
but it's again uh consciousness is all

952
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:42,000
there is

953
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:44,160
so it's you know how is this

954
00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:45,760
manifestation happening

955
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:47,599
and to the degree that clinical

956
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:50,079
psychology

957
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,440
makes a turn towards the soul right

958
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,200
psychology right

959
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:57,680
turn towards the soul then yes we have a

960
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:59,280
chance the more

961
00:36:04,589 --> 00:36:01,760
it turns towards psychot what is current

962
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:04,599
day psychiatry in a more dualistic

963
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:07,839
materialistic all brain based

964
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:09,839
uh then yeah there's there's lots of

965
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:11,200
problems there but when clinical

966
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:13,280
psychology opens its doors

967
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:17,119
to soul then we definitely have

968
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:20,720
um opportunities

969
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:22,640
we just have to be very careful at how

970
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,359
quickly we pathologize and that's where

971
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:27,200
their the strength i think is in the

972
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:28,640
young ian camp

973
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:32,160
is it's really anti pathologizing

974
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:35,440
it's hey let's get a lot of space

975
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:38,720
so we can look at all this phenomena

976
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:41,920
yeah awesome awesome i i hope that

977
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:45,359
sounds somewhat interesting to somebody

978
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:46,240
out there

979
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:50,560
were a lot of you know you were

980
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:54,079
very very uh nice and generous to play

981
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:55,760
along with my little uh questionnaire

982
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:56,880
that i sent you

983
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:59,040
you're somewhat of a guinea pig but i've

984
00:37:01,589 --> 00:37:00,800
been i'm sending these out to all my

985
00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:01,599
guests

986
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:03,680
but you were kind of the first one to

987
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,040
get a previous version of that

988
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:09,680
you know i'm i'm interested in a couple

989
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:11,119
of different things that are a little

990
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:11,440
bit

991
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:15,359
off topic but not really

992
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:17,680
one you touched on this idea that we

993
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:18,640
need to get

994
00:37:23,349 --> 00:37:21,359
enough people and that we need to you

995
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:23,359
know this often gets kind of tied into

996
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:25,119
some kind of

997
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:28,160
political or parapolitical kind of you

998
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:30,079
know we need to raise the

999
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:32,880
vibratory level of so many people and

1000
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:34,960
this and that

1001
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:37,280
i i wonder what your thoughts are on

1002
00:37:43,550 --> 00:37:39,440
that and in particular

1003
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:43,560
you know what that means in terms of

1004
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:45,760
environmentalism but particularly what

1005
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:47,200
it means in terms of

1006
00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:50,640
uh conspiracy and

1007
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:53,520
uh let me stop there but then i i say i

1008
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:55,040
want to stop there but then i can't

1009
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:56,640
really stop there because i haven't

1010
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:57,760
given you

1011
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:01,920
i believe that uh scientific materialism

1012
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:04,640
as we've come to understand it as it is

1013
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:05,760
enshrined in

1014
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:08,640
psychiatry and psychology that you are a

1015
00:38:11,510 --> 00:38:10,480
biological robot in a meaningless

1016
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:11,520
universe

1017
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:14,079
that you can never be more than an

1018
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,800
epiphenomenon of your brain

1019
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,720
i thought i didn't see this at the

1020
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:20,160
beginning but i see that as highly

1021
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:21,599
conspiratorial

1022
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:25,119
i see that as uh just too convenient

1023
00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:28,000
for a social engineering disempowering

1024
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:30,079
mechanism to control people

1025
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:33,040
to be accidental and i also find it to

1026
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,440
be

1027
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:35,280
too absurd just as a notion

1028
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:37,040
philosophically that is an absurd idea

1029
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:38,079
it's just absurd

1030
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,160
you know that you are not

1031
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:43,920
you are not experiencing anything right

1032
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:45,200
now you are an illusion

1033
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:48,079
it's just an absurd idea so that leads

1034
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:48,960
me to the

1035
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:50,880
conclusion that it's it's somewhat

1036
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,800
conspiratorial it's it's somewhat

1037
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:54,160
related to some kind of social

1038
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,599
engineering project

1039
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,920
and then i would relate it back to you

1040
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:59,280
know is consciousness

1041
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:00,960
run the risk of being co-opted in the

1042
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:06,790
i'm saying well consciousness is being

1043
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:08,960
co-opted by anybody who's in an egoic

1044
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,720
separate self mindset that's exactly

1045
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:12,160
what's happening they're appropriating

1046
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:13,040
consciousness

1047
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:15,760
they're binding it and you know they're

1048
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:17,119
they're tightening it up and then

1049
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:18,320
they're acting it out

1050
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:20,800
by trying to control people or have

1051
00:39:25,270 --> 00:39:22,079
power over people

1052
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:25,280
and this um you know part of what we

1053
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:26,480
want to talk about

1054
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,680
perhaps globally if we got psychologists

1055
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:31,440
from all different nations together

1056
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:35,760
is you know making sure that our leaders

1057
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:39,359
are um have a view that

1058
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:42,800
has to do with holistic

1059
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:46,400
um you know non-violence truth

1060
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:49,280
non-greed non-stealing we need

1061
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:50,400
leadership

1062
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:54,839
that's going to you know allow that to

1063
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:57,920
permeate multiple cultures across the

1064
00:40:02,390 --> 00:39:59,280
world so again people

1065
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:02,400
can feel comfortable in their culture

1066
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:05,359
and you know move about in the world in

1067
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:06,720
a way that's comfortable not

1068
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:10,560
fear-based and a lot of what

1069
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:13,040
comes out is fear-based because

1070
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:13,839
leadership

1071
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,760
is in the power over model they're

1072
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:16,960
trying to grab

1073
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:19,599
power in a you know an egoic way but

1074
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:20,400
ultimately

1075
00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:24,079
this is the thing consciousness

1076
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:27,200
knows exactly what the mind is doing at

1077
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:27,920
all times

1078
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:30,319
pure consciousness the fear right the

1079
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:31,040
conscious

1080
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:36,319
what's another way for me to say this

1081
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:38,800
there's a very

1082
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:40,800
the the the universe is in balance right

1083
00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:42,960
there's a there's harmony that allows

1084
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,520
the

1085
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:46,000
earth to be on its axis and rotate on

1086
00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:46,800
its

1087
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:49,280
axis and rotate around the sun right

1088
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:50,640
there's there's a

1089
00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:53,760
there's a harmony to the universe now we

1090
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:56,319
come along

1091
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:00,480
and we want to again take power

1092
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:03,440
grab to greed through stealing but

1093
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,480
ultimately

1094
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,880
it can't be done because we'll blow

1095
00:41:12,309 --> 00:41:08,720
ourselves up

1096
00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:12,319
we'll be gone well we've probably done

1097
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:12,640
that

1098
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:15,040
a lot of times in the past and this is

1099
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,880
where i think

1100
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,640
we won't be able to kind of get into all

1101
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:20,160
this territory because it's too

1102
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,390
it's it's just hard for me to uh

1103
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,240
reconcile that with history

1104
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:32,560
with any history i i always like to go

1105
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:34,000
to christianity because it's easy

1106
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:37,280
and people can wrap their arms around it

1107
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,280
christianity if you go back to the first

1108
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,079
century and you go back to the idea that

1109
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:44,160
the bible is pro-roman i just did a show

1110
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:45,280
on this

1111
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,319
how the [\h__\h] in the bible be pro-roman

1112
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,319
the bible is pro-roman because it was a

1113
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:52,240
social engineering project

1114
00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:54,720
now it wasn't like designed perfectly in

1115
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:56,960
terms of how they did it how they did it

1116
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:59,839
but go look at the arc of titus you know

1117
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:01,040
it's a big statue

1118
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:03,680
you go look at the thing and you can go

1119
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:05,440
see where the romans kicked their ass

1120
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,800
those people in judea who are giving

1121
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,960
them all those problems the cult

1122
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:11,040
in judea right because it was a cult

1123
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:12,640
they were like following all these rules

1124
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,160
down to the nth degree

1125
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:16,640
occult so they're all cults but this was

1126
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:17,280
a cult

1127
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:19,359
and then they took all the stuff out and

1128
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:21,280
they had a historian who documented

1129
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:22,800
everything that they did every step of

1130
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,280
the way

1131
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:25,920
his name's josephus probably a fictional

1132
00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:26,880
character because

1133
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:28,160
it doesn't really make sense that the

1134
00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:30,160
romans would land in galilee and just

1135
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:32,720
wrap their arms around this jewish rabbi

1136
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,480
and say come write the history for us

1137
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:36,560
but that being what it is

1138
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,480
josephus's historical account which

1139
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:40,640
every historian says josephus josephus

1140
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:42,480
is the most reliable record

1141
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:44,560
just see if this winds up in the bible

1142
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:46,960
so all the bible writers are writing

1143
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:50,319
out of this roman historian

1144
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:53,760
this is a psyop

1145
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:57,040
this is a control mechanism this is uh

1146
00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:59,680
give unto caesar what is caesar go the

1147
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,280
extra mile which means

1148
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:03,359
carry the backpack of the roman soldier

1149
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:04,640
an extra mile

1150
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:07,119
it doesn't mean that spiritual

1151
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:09,200
transcendency can't arise

1152
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:12,720
out of this spiritual tradition because

1153
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:14,480
it can arise out of it yeah

1154
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:18,079
anything you know but if we don't start

1155
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:21,440
unraveling these things

1156
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:23,040
i just don't see how we're going to be

1157
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:24,640
able to connect that

1158
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:26,880
to what you're saying of that we got to

1159
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,960
get rid of these greedy capitalists and

1160
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:30,319
then the greedy capitalists come along

1161
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:32,079
and say well we're not really your enemy

1162
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,280
your enemy is china your enemy is north

1163
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:37,200
korea because that's how they want

1164
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:38,160
everyone to live

1165
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:40,000
you know you go [\h__\h] well i don't want

1166
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,920
that and then you come over in the u.s

1167
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:43,200
and they said well we're really doing

1168
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:44,480
the same thing we're just not telling

1169
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:44,720
you

1170
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:46,160
well i don't want that well then it's

1171
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:48,079
like what do you want because

1172
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:51,119
ultimately you do want to

1173
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:54,400
be able to live your life so i just

1174
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:55,200
don't think

1175
00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:57,920
it's that simple and until we are

1176
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,560
willing to

1177
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:00,560
embrace the complexity of it and the

1178
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,800
conspiratorial nature of it

1179
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:04,560
we just don't even have a chance of

1180
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:05,839
really

1181
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:09,040
understanding this stuff yeah oh and i

1182
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:10,160
definitely don't think it's

1183
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:13,359
simple either by any chance by any means

1184
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,839
i mean

1185
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,000
again i i'm saying you know we would

1186
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:18,000
need psychologists from all over the

1187
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:18,560
globe

1188
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,880
to come together we're in a global brain

1189
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:23,520
now with the internet in particular

1190
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:26,640
so if we if we want to bring some level

1191
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:29,280
of harmony forward then we need

1192
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:30,240
leadership

1193
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:33,280
that want literally wants

1194
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:37,200
that that uh feeling

1195
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,480
for the people in each nation they wants

1196
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:42,240
it and and i hear what you're saying

1197
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:43,680
it's a big grab

1198
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,800
for power and control through religion

1199
00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:48,160
you know that's not what i'm saying so

1200
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:50,880
much i'm saying that sounds that always

1201
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:54,240
winds up sounding to me like backdoor

1202
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:55,760
materialism

1203
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:58,160
like okay we need to give we need to

1204
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:00,400
give up control

1205
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:02,160
and then we need to grab it back and say

1206
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,920
okay what we really really really meant

1207
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:05,359
by giving up control is

1208
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:06,880
we have to make sure that this happens

1209
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,720
and that social justice happens

1210
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:10,960
in this way that i define as social

1211
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,079
justice and that

1212
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:14,400
these people are penalized in this way

1213
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:15,680
as i understand it

1214
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:17,839
and i go back to my story with my friend

1215
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:19,920
annika lucas right so she's

1216
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:22,240
sold into a satanic ritual abuse cult at

1217
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,040
six years old

1218
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:25,760
i can't tell you how many people cannot

1219
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:26,560
accept that

1220
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:29,520
deal with that they turn off tuna and i

1221
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:30,640
go well just go

1222
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:33,359
they have the photos of the guy who was

1223
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:34,079
arrested

1224
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:36,560
in belgium they have pictures of the

1225
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:37,119
kids

1226
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,240
while he was in prison awaiting trial

1227
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:44,720
he wasn't able to go and feed the kids

1228
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:46,880
that he was pedaling to

1229
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,960
elites right and people are still like

1230
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,800
no no no no no

1231
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:52,319
i wouldn't believe it even if it was

1232
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:53,760
true because it doesn't fit into their

1233
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:54,319
thing

1234
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:57,599
but then here's the problem with with

1235
00:46:01,670 --> 00:46:00,319
annika is go talk to people who are

1236
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:01,680
doing between

1237
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:05,359
life research and between life

1238
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:06,160
regressions

1239
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:08,319
and they say well she her soul chose

1240
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:09,280
that

1241
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:13,200
of this experience

1242
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:14,960
for whatever lesson she was going to get

1243
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:16,480
out of that now i can't wrap my head

1244
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:17,359
around that

1245
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:20,560
but i can't dismiss that either and that

1246
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:21,920
just sends us in a whole different

1247
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:22,560
direction

1248
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:25,599
in terms of how this stuff is supposed

1249
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:26,480
to play out

1250
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:28,560
not only on an individual level but on a

1251
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:30,079
you know

1252
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:32,880
global level on a national level on a

1253
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:40,550
i mean that's where the the deep the

1254
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:41,440
depth comes

1255
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:45,119
in right because it it it really is it's

1256
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:45,440
so

1257
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:49,119
it but

1258
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:51,839
that's why i mean at least through the

1259
00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:52,560
lineages

1260
00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:55,680
of young and potentially this turn

1261
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:58,000
that we each have to make the turn

1262
00:47:01,670 --> 00:47:00,800
within to find where that evil is within

1263
00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:01,680
us

1264
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,160
where where any of that aggression where

1265
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:06,480
any of that power over is within us

1266
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:08,240
because when we understand how it's

1267
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,319
playing out within us then we have

1268
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:12,480
a better understanding of then how it's

1269
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:14,319
playing out in other people

1270
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:18,240
so i i hear you but really until

1271
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:20,319
i i don't know what enough of us would

1272
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:21,280
be but

1273
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:24,559
it's if there is strength in numbers

1274
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:27,440
then it's taking that deep deep turn

1275
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:28,400
within

1276
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:31,839
to process our own deep levels of

1277
00:47:35,349 --> 00:47:34,079
like we're talking about either evil but

1278
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:35,359
i also like to say

1279
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:38,319
fear for sure because the fear ends up

1280
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:39,440
manifesting

1281
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:41,440
as a power over as some kind of

1282
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:42,880
aggression that i

1283
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:45,920
can somehow alleviate my own internal

1284
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:46,400
fear

1285
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,319
by controlling people in my external

1286
00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:50,480
world

1287
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:53,359
and again when we do that work within we

1288
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:54,800
have a better understanding of why

1289
00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:55,359
people

1290
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:01,349
yeah i really like that oh absolutely

1291
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:03,359
and i really like the way that uh

1292
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:07,119
the way that you put that so uh leanne

1293
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:09,920
how how's the best way for people to

1294
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,040
connect with you

1295
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,720
is it through this book i see that you

1296
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:15,200
actually i said the book is pretty dense

1297
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,640
you've actually put together like a

1298
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:18,640
training course that people can kind of

1299
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:19,200
go through

1300
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:21,280
but is that the material that people are

1301
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:22,880
finding most

1302
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:25,040
useful and i love the way you say making

1303
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:26,480
that turn you know

1304
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,079
what's what's the best way for people to

1305
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:30,960
connect with what you're doing

1306
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:32,960
well my book is definitely academic you

1307
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:35,359
know it's definitely academic so it's

1308
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,000
it's

1309
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:38,160
definitely for people who who want a

1310
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:39,599
deep dive but

1311
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:42,240
through an academic lens into both young

1312
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:43,839
and patanjali

1313
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:46,720
i do hope to write a book that's more it

1314
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:47,280
has more

1315
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:50,480
mass appeal to it in short order but

1316
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:53,680
i do i teach i teach yoga online often

1317
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:57,200
i have an upcoming course uh in january

1318
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:58,800
i have some events with the young

1319
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,240
society coming up

1320
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:02,880
but overall the best way to um if they

1321
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:04,400
wanted to reach out to me directly is

1322
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:07,839
through my website leannewhitney.com

1323
00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:10,880
great leanne whitney.com easy you got

1324
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:12,160
the url

1325
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,760
surprise you must have gotten it a long

1326
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:15,680
time ago that's good

1327
00:49:22,390 --> 00:49:19,920
i did well it's been absolutely

1328
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:22,400
super connecting with you really fun

1329
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:24,000
conversation

1330
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:27,680
i i hope somebody out there uh has

1331
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:29,520
an interest enough in this kind of deep

1332
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:32,079
deep dive but there's so much meat there

1333
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:32,720
so

1334
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:36,000
joining me

1335
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:37,760
thanks for having me alex nice to be

1336
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,790
thanks again to dr leanne whitney for

1337
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:44,880
joining me today on skeptico

1338
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,000
i really enjoyed the conversation and

1339
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,400
the way we were able to

1340
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:52,319
really bring this back to some of the

1341
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:53,760
fundamental questions

1342
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:57,119
about spirituality so the natural

1343
00:50:01,510 --> 00:49:58,000
question to tia

1344
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:01,520
from this interview is which

1345
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:04,960
superhero do you choose young

1346
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:07,200
or patanjali i'd like to hear your

1347
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:08,240
thoughts on that please

1348
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:11,280
do a skeptical forum check it out and do

1349
00:50:13,589 --> 00:50:12,960
stick around i have a lot of great shows